Alexander asks
Answered by Viktor Belousov, 06/27/2013

Alexander asks:"Hello, please answer my question.
Jesus said...I am.
These are the same words I Am Who I Am
How is it written in the original? I know there is some controversy surrounding these words."

Peace to you, Alexander!

We will look at this issue from several angles:

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The original came to us in Koine Greek (simplified), although it was spoken in Aramaic. Whether Jesus used the "tetragrammaton" in this text (YHVH - Yahweh, the Jehovah) is unknown. But the meaning of the text, even without this, was very “heretical” for the Jews - because who could it be before Abraham even appeared. After all, the Jews, as a people, traced their ancestry back to Abraham. If Jesus says that He exists before Abraham, this is a very serious statement.

2) The context of this conversation.

Just a few verses earlier, Jesus is making His essence very clear.

22 Then the Jews said: Will He really kill Himself, because He says: “Where I go, you cannot come”?
23 He said to them, “You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world.
24 Therefore I told you that you would die in your sins; for if you do not believe that it is I, you will die in your sins.
25 Then they said to Him: who are you? Jesus said to them: from the beginning the Existent, just as I tell you.
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In the Greek text, the word “Beginning” is used there - for a Jew this was a clear reference to the chapter - In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth...

This same word is also used in the Gospels in exactly the same way when talking about the 1st chapter of Genesis:

4 He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who created at first did He create them male and female?
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8 He says to them: Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, allowed you to divorce your wives; at first it wasn't like that;
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21 For then there will be great tribulation such as has not been seen since started peace until now, and there will be no peace.
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It is clear that Jesus refers Himself to the 1st chapter of Genesis, where there are not many active characters.

3) The context of that time - according to the reaction of the listeners of that time to His words.

53 Are You greater than our father Abraham, who died? and the prophets died: what are you doing?
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56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day; and he saw and rejoiced.
57 At this the Jews said to Him: You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”
59 Then they took stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid himself and left the temple, passing through the midst of them, and went on.
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The Jews perfectly understood the words of Christ about His Divine essence and regarded them as blasphemy, for which they stoned them. It must be said that Jesus in the Gospels never called Himself an angel - that He was a created angel from God, but He always said that He was the Son Heavenly Father. The Jews understood this meaning very clearly:

33 The Jews answered Him, “We do not want to stone You for a good deed, but for blasphemy and because You, being a man, make Yourself God.”
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I think that, taken together, one can clearly see that Jesus called Himself the Son of God - one with the Father, for which they wanted to stone Him.

God's blessings,
Victor

Alexander Dulger adds:

Although we do not know exactly what turn of phrase Jesus used, as Brother Victor rightly noted, we can nevertheless understand what the Evangelist John, inspired by the Holy Spirit, wanted to say.

In the 3rd century BC, by order of the Egyptian king Ptolemy Philadelphus, 70 Jewish scribes translated the Scriptures of the Old Testament from Hebrew into Greek. This translation is called the Septuagint and was well known in the time of the apostles. In this translation, the text contains the Greek expression “ego by them,” that is, “I am.”

The fact that he used these same words suggests that he identified Christ Jesus with the Person who spoke to Moses in the book of Exodus. In other words, John equates Jesus with Yahweh.

Sincerely,
Alexander

Read more on the topic “Interpretation of Scripture”:

13 Feb

The Lord said to the Jews who came to Him: Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever keeps My word will never see death. The Jews said to Him: Now we have learned that you have a demon. Abraham died and the prophets, and You say: whoever keeps My word will never taste death. Are You greater than our father Abraham, who died? and the prophets died: what are you doing? Jesus answered: If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing. glorifies me My Father of whom you say that He is God is yours. And you did not know Him, but I know Him; and if I say that I do not know Him, then I will be a liar like you. But I know Him and I keep His word. Abraham your father rejoiced to see My day; and he saw and rejoiced. To this the Jews said to Him: You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham? Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” Then they took stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid himself and left the temple, passing through the midst of them, and went on.

The Lord declares that everyone whoever keeps His word, will never know death. These words cause horror and confusion among the Jews. Abraham died and the prophets died. But didn’t they keep the word of God? Who is this Jesus that puts Himself above the greatest fathers of the faith? But the Lord is not talking about physical death. He says that for one who truly accepts Him, death is not the last word. He enters into a relationship with God that nothing can destroy. He makes the transition not from life to death, but from earthly life to eternal life. Death opens for Him an even greater presence of God. It is true that Abraham and the prophets were great in the favor of God and in the veneration of pious people. It is true that they kept the word of God. And it is true that they died. And they never dared to say that they were given immortality, especially since they could give it to others. Their glory is that they died in faith, but they had to die. The Jews believed that no one could be greater than Abraham and the prophets. Strangely, they forgot that the Messiah would be greater than them. Hearing these words of the Lord, instead of accusing Him of obsession, they should have wondered if He was the Messiah - Christ, but their eyes were blinded.

What are you doing?- they ask mockingly. And again the Lord answers them with meekness. Truly this was the day of His longsuffering. If I glorify Myself, then My glory is nothing. It is not for nothing that the chimera of one’s own exaltation is called vanity, and the glory of the vain world is only deception and self-deception. But eternal courts are different from temporal courts.

The Lord sends them to His Father - to God and to their father - Abraham. My Father glorifies me,- He says. From God the Father He received all His glory and seeks only the glory of the Father. And all who are Christ’s, who seek the glory of the Father, should not fear any dishonor here on earth. You say that He is your God,- the Savior addresses the Jews - but you did not know Him. You do not know Him at all, your knowledge of God is false. And I know Him; and if I say that I do not know Him, then I will be a liar like you. If He had denied His unity with God for the sake of false humility before the Jews, He would have become a false witness against God and against Himself. But I know Him and keep His word,- says Christ. The only way to know God is through Jesus Christ. Only in Him is the fullness of Divine truth, only in Him can we see what our God is like. And only in Him do we see perfect obedience to God. He alone reveals to us the true God and the true Man. And it gives an image of fidelity to the word of God and obedience to God the Father.

Abraham your father- He says to the Jews, - I was glad to see My day, and I saw it and rejoiced. Those who see the first ray of the Sun of righteousness cannot help but long for the coming of the Lord's day. This was his joy about God’s favor towards him and about God’s mercy towards the entire human race. The vision of Christ and the day “which the Lord has made” cannot but fill the human heart with joy. No one can know what true joy is until they know Christ. To this the Jews said to Him: You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham? It seems absurd to them to be able to see someone who lived many centuries before His birth. And for them this is a reason to mock the age of Christ, as if they wanted to say that He is too young to really know anything. And then the Lord pronounces these words that crush them: Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am. Christ does not say: “Before Abraham was, I was", but: "before Abraham was, I am" This means that He has no beginning. There was no time when He began to be. And there will never be a time when He will cease to exist. This does not mean that the Man with whom the Jews speak has always existed. As a Man He was born in Bethlehem. But there is only one person who has no beginning - God. In Christ the life of God appeared on earth. Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. In Him we see a Man who came into the world to die a human death. And we see in Him the beginningless God - the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, begotten, uncreated, before all ages, from the beginning of Creation, the One who is the First and the Last and to whom glory belongs now and ever and unto the ages of ages.

The Jews then they took stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid himself and left the temple, passing through the midst of them, and went on. He passed in the middle of them unrecognized by them. He leaves them, and leaves their house empty. He went further- before the Cross, before the descent into hell, before the Resurrection and Ascension, before the gift of Pentecost for the sake of introducing all those who love Him to His Divine glory.

"Before Abraham was, I am. I saw My day and rejoiced." Interpretation

It refers to this verse of scripture:

“Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day; and he saw and rejoiced"(John 8:56)

In chapter 8 of the Gospel of John we see a dialogue between the Jews and Jesus, which took place in the Jerusalem temple. During this conversation, Jesus tries to reveal to the people of Israel a) His unearthly origin, and b) that He brings them the teaching of God - His Father. Look how Christ says:

“You are from below, I am from the highest; you are of this world, I'm not of this world...if you don't believe that It's me, then you will die in your sins. Then they said to Him: Who are You? Jesus said to them: from the beginning the Existent. He who sent Me is true, and what I heard from Him, that is what I say to the world. Not understood what He told them about Father” (John 8:23-27)

Despite the fact that the Jews could not reproach Jesus for lying and for the incorrectness of His teachings, many called Him the son of the devil and questioned the truth of His preaching.

“Isn’t it true when we say that... that demon in you?"(John 8:48)

Several times during this dialogue the conversation turned to Abraham. Jesus reproached the Jews for not doing as Abraham himself did, while calling themselves descendants of Abraham:

“They answered and said to Him, Our father is Abraham. Jesus said to them: If you were children of Abraham, you would do the works of Abraham. And now you seek to kill Me, the Man who told you the truth, which I heard from God: Abraham did not do this.”(John 8:39,40)

Therefore, that part of the conversation about Abraham that you mention cannot be perceived separately from the entire conversation between the Jews and Jesus, which took place at the temple.

Look at how the final dialogue we are examining about Abraham begins:

Jesus said: “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever keeps My word will will never see death” (John 8:51)

Taking into account the general topic of conversation discussed above, it is clear that Christ here again calls on the Jews to believe His words. Moreover, He promises that those who believe in Him and follow His teachings “they will never see death”, that is, they will inherit eternal life. However, the Jews did not understand this appeal of Jesus, and again accused Him of serving demons:

“The Jews said to Him: Now we know that you have a demon. Abraham died and the prophets, and You say: Whoever keeps My word, he will never taste death. Really You are greater than our father Abraham who died? and the prophets died: what are you doing?”(John 8:52,53)

They understood that Jesus declared that he could make a person immortal, which the prophets were not capable of, including their forefather, the hero of the faith, Abraham, and these prophets could not even extend their own lives and therefore died. They couldn't wrap their heads around the fact that Jesus “greater than Abraham” and can save you from death. Jesus did not explain to them that He did not mean prolongation of life here and now, but eternal life, realizing that it was difficult for them to understand now, but subsequent generations, reading the lines of the Gospel, would understand about the victory over what kind of death He was talking about. Realizing that the Jews were comparing Him with Abraham, clearly not in favor of Jesus, Christ further reminded the listeners of His closeness with God the Father, already directly indicating that His authority more than Abraham :

“Abraham, your father, was glad to see my day; and he saw and rejoiced"(John 8:56)

To this the Jews objected to Him: “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?”(John 8:57).

From this question, it is clear that Jesus’ listeners mock Him, pointing out that Abraham lived a long time ago, and Jesus was very young and could not naturally talk to Abraham. But Jesus once again declared to them His Divinity, explaining that He was still before Abraham:

“Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before than Abraham was, I am” (John 8:58).

For such another and quite obvious statement of Jesus about His Divine essence, the Jews wanted to execute Him by stoning, but Christ left them:

“Then they took stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid himself and left the temple, passing through the midst of them, and went on.”(John 8:58).

Now let's think about whether Jesus could be talking here about fellowship with Abraham in paradise? Which “My day” could he please Abraham? If this communication had taken place, say in paradise, a day or a year before the conversation in question between Jesus and the Jews, then “My day” could only be the coming of Jesus to Earth in human form. Of course, this event could please the prophet. We see that God's people rejoiced when the Messiah was born. But looking at the suffering of Christ, at how He was not accepted and persecuted by the Jews, Abraham probably was not entirely happy, since these were his descendants. They spoke: “Our Father is Abraham”(John 8:39), but Jesus thought differently: “Your father is the devil”(John 8:44), judging by the affairs of the Jews. Therefore, Abraham would probably have been more pleased with the Death of Jesus on the Cross and His Resurrection, when victory over death already happened than to look from heaven at the suffering of Christ and the retreat of his native people. Abraham would also have been pleased with the news of the Second Coming of Christ, who by the way was called that by the apostles and prophets “The Day of the Lord” (see Joh. 1:15; 2:31, Oba. 1:15, Acts 2:20, 2 Pet. 3:10, Isa. 2:12; 13:6,9 Zeph. 1:4). Now remember what Jesus said to the Jews a little higher? Just about the fact that he who believes in Him and does His will “will never see death”. That is, “My day” who pleased Abraham is “The Day of the Lord”- the message of Salvation to eternal life through the sacrifice of Christ after His Second Coming.

In addition, the text of the dialogue itself clearly shows that Jesus spoke about communication with Abraham not in paradise at the present time, which is not discussed here at all, but about their conversation a long time ago:

"You Not yet fifty years - and have you seen Abraham? ... before than Abraham was, I am".

If Jesus wanted to show the Jews His ability to communicate with the inhabitants of heaven, who are now supposedly in paradise, then this would not have surprised them much, because Abraham and Moses personally communicated with God Himself. That is, such a skill would not indicate to people the superiority of Jesus over Abraham, but only his prophetic gift. But with this phrase, judging by the context, from which it is clear that throughout the entire dialogue He proclaimed to them about His unearthly nature, Jesus precisely wanted to show the Jews that He was greater than Abraham: “Before Abraham was, I am”

The Bible says that God told Abraham what was in him “All families of the earth will be blessed”(see Gen. 12:3, 22:18, 28:14). Most Christian theologians understand that this is about the Salvation of believers of all races and from all continents to eternal life through Christ. Apparently this was a revelation to Abraham about Salvation, which pleased him. It is absolutely clear that it was not God the Father who could communicate with Abraham, but God the Son, that is, Jesus. Many verses speak of the fact that Jesus was always present on earth and was directly involved in people’s lives. Holy Scripture(see Col. 1:16, John 1:1,10,14, 1 Pet. 1:10,11, John 8:25, John 17:5, Rom. 9:5, Heb. 1: 8-12, 1 Cor. 10:4,9).

It is also worth looking at the etymology of the words used in the text under study. The point is that the verb "see" ei"dw in a phrase “Abraham...was glad to see My day; and he saw and rejoiced" about the original Greek language has several meanings:

see, contemplate, look, glance;
to know, to know, to be converted, to be directed, to look with hope, to perceive, to understand.

That is, the second meaning of this word absolutely fits into the interpretation of this text discussed here. In addition, this verb is used in the future tense futurum, which proves the prophetic meaning of the revelation given to Abraham.

It should be noted that the word “see” in the New Testament is also denoted by another verb ble/pw, which has the same meaning, and not in the future tense:

see, look.

Thus, comprehensively examining the controversial text, it is clear that, taking into account the context of the narrative, it is not about Jesus’ communication with Abraham in the heavenly paradise, but about the revelation of the universal Salvation of Abraham’s spiritual followers, given to him during his lifetime.

Valery Tatarkin
Email: [email protected]

Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever keeps My word will never see death.

The Jews said to Him: Now we have learned that you have a demon. Abraham died and the prophets, and You say: whoever keeps My word will never taste death.

Are You greater than our father Abraham, who died? and the prophets died: what are you doing?

Jesus answered: If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing. My Father glorifies me, of whom you say that He is your God.

And you did not know Him, but I know Him; and if I say that I do not know Him, then I will be a liar like you. But I know Him and keep His word.

Abraham your father rejoiced to see My day; and he saw and rejoiced.

To this the Jews said to Him: You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?

Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

Then they took stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid himself and left the temple, passing through the midst of them, and went on.

John 8:51-59

Interpretation of Blessed Theophylact of Bulgaria

Blessed Theophylact Bulgarian

John 8:51. Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever keeps My word will never see death.

What did he tell them? "Whoever keeps My word", that is, he will unite a pure life with faith (for he only truly observes the teachings of the Lord who also has a pure life), such a one will not see the death by which sinners die, given over to endless torment in the next century and falling away from true life.

At the same time, he lets them know that if he who keeps My word does not die, how much less do I? Why do you want to kill Me, over Whom death has so little power that I even give true life to others? For although believers die bodily, yet they are alive in God.

John 8:52. The Jews said to Him: Now we have learned that you have a demon. Abraham died and the prophets, and You say: whoever keeps My word will never taste death.

What do the Jews say to this? They consider Him to be mad, as if He were saying some strange things out of damage to his mind. Abraham and the prophets who heard the words of God died, how can Your listeners not die? “Now,” they say, “we truly, that is, completely and firmly, have learned that You are going crazy when you say this.”

John 8:53. Are You greater than our father Abraham, who died? and the prophets died:

Madmen, not understanding what kind of death the Lord was talking about, that it would not affect those who believe in Him, tell Him something reckless and insane. Watch how they respond. They should have said: “Are You greater than God? Those who heard the word of God died, but those who listen to You will not die.” But they are not. Wanting to show that He is less than Abraham, they say: “Are You greater than our father Abraham?”

The Lord Himself does not reveal to them what kind of death He spoke about. And that He is higher than Abraham, this is convinced a little later. H eat Are you making yourself?

They say this as an insult. You, unworthy of a single word, Son of a carpenter, Galilean, what are you doing with yourself? Neither works, nor truth, nor Scripture, but what do You make Yourself with? For You take the glory to Yourself.

John 8:54. Jesus answered: If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing. My Father glorifies me, of whom you say that He is your God.

The Lord says to this: « If I glorify Myself, then My glory is nothing, just like you think. But now he who glorifies Me is another, even My Father.”

The Father glorified Him in every possible way, sometimes with prophecies about Him, sometimes with testimony from heaven, sometimes with countless and immeasurable miracles. Of this Father you say that He is your God. But you do not recognize Him either as My Father or as your God. If you acknowledged Him as Father, you would honor His Son. But now you do not honor His Son. Obviously, you do not recognize Him as My Father. But you do not recognize Him simply as God. Otherwise you would fear His words as God. Now you resolutely neglect Him. He decreed by law: “Thou shalt not kill.” You seek to kill Me, and, moreover, when you cannot convict Me of sin.

John 8:55. And you did not know Him, but I know Him;

It is now clear that you do not know Him at all. But I know Him by nature, I have perfect knowledge of Him. For as I am, so is the Father. And just as I know Myself, I know Him too.

and if I say that I do not know Him, then I will be a liar like you.

For you lie when you boast that you know Him; and I will renounce the truth if, knowing Him, I say that I do not know.

But I know Him and keep His word.

How will you prove that you know Him? “Because,” he says, “that I I keep His word, that is, His commandments." For I am not an opponent of Him, otherwise I would boast as an opponent of God, and I do not violate His commandments. And you, transgressors of His commandments, are in captivity, indulging in evil lusts, thirsting for murder and many other things prohibited by law, you commit with passion and thereby clearly reveal that you do not know Him. For if you knew Him, you would keep His word, that is, the commandments.

Different words “I will keep His word” They understand this: because I know Him, because in Myself I have an unchanging image of His Being, that is, being, and what image of Nature the Father has, is the same with Me. For the Father and the Son have one and the same Nature and one and the same way of being. Therefore I know the Father, for I keep the unchanging image of His Being.

This turn of phrase is customary in Scripture. For example, in Slavic they say “Give us help from sorrow: and human salvation is in vain”(Ps. 59:13). Here the particle “and” is used instead of “for”, and the speech has the following meaning: give us help, for salvation from man is unreliable. So it is in these words "I know Him, and I keep His word" the particle “and” is placed instead of “for”. “For,” he says, “ I keep His word».

John 8:56. Abraham your father rejoiced to see My day; and he saw and rejoiced.

Here he states that He is greater than Abraham. Above they told Him: “Are You greater than our father Abraham?” Here He answers: “Yes, I am greater.”

He “I was glad to see My day”, that is, he considered it pleasant, desirable and joyful, as a very beneficial day and as the day of not a small person, not an ordinary person, but a Great One. “Day” he calls the Cross, for it was typified by Abraham in the offering of Isaac and in the slaughter of the ram. Just as he carried the wood, so the Lord carried the cross, and just as Isaac was abandoned and the ram was slaughtered, so He, as God, remained outside of suffering, but suffered through Humanity and flesh. Foreseeing this day of the Cross as the day of universal salvation, Abraham rejoiced. It also shows that He voluntarily goes to suffer, since He praises the one who rejoiced in the Cross: for through him is the salvation of the universe.

Others by “day” mean the entire time of the appearance of Christ in the flesh, which, having seen, Abraham rejoiced that the Savior would come from him and his descendants. Or maybe not only Abraham rejoiced, but everyone else, as David says: “This is the day the Lord has made: let us rejoice and be glad in it!”(Ps. 117:24).

John 8:57. To this the Jews said to Him: You are not yet fifty years old, and You saw Abraham

The Jews, unable to rise to the meaning of His words, instead of asking and finding out what day He is talking about that Abraham saw, ridicule Him even more, as if He were saying something reckless. “To you,” they say, “ not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?” They said this, thinking that the Lord was about fifty years old, while He was about thirty-three years old.

Why didn’t they say “You are not yet forty years old,” but “fifty”? It would be unnecessary to ask about this. Maybe they mentioned fifty years without a specific thought. However, some say that they said so because they especially honored the fiftieth year, that is, the year of jubilee, in which slaves were set free, buyers gave up their acquisitions and did everything else that was related to honor.

John 8:58. Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

What does the Lord say? "Before Abraham was, I am". Look, he didn’t say “before Abraham was, I was,” but “I am.” For this saying “I am” is more characteristic of God, because it means continuous and everlasting existence. So also His Father Old Testament expressed himself about himself: “I am” (Exod. 3 :14). About Abraham, as perishable, he decently said “was.” For what has come into being is destroyed. And the word “am” indicates freedom from all corruption and divine eternity.

John 8:59. Then they took stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid himself and left the temple, passing through the midst of them, and went on.

Therefore, they too took this saying, as befitting only God, as blasphemy and took stones against Him. But He again hides with humility, so as not to die before the time determined for His death.

How does he hide? He did not hide in the corner of the temple, did not run into the house, did not lean against the wall or behind a pillar, but by Divine power He made Himself invisible to the accusers, although He went out in the midst of them. “And he went on,” that is, he went on like this, simply, for some time.

Look, perhaps, how He fulfilled everything from His side: He taught them enough about Himself and about the Father, and showed them true nobility and freedom in freedom from sins; explained that only slavery is shameful, slavery to sin, and generally did not omit anything necessary. And they throw stones at Him. That is why He leaves them as no longer capable of correction.

Notice that the stones are thrown by those about whom the evangelist said that they believed in Him (John 8:30-31). This means that their faith was not faith, but some kind of temporary and cold disposition towards the speeches of Christ.

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